nsmar4211 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've always wanted my own kiln but could never justify the cost. I've done several pottery classes so I'm ok with the technical ends. Then it occured to me that I could get one of the baby kilns (runs about $400) and use it to make small stuff........small bonsai pots.....and dollhouse minis! Then my pinchapenny brain said well, you could make your dollhouse stuff out of fimo (and scupley etc) stuff like you've done before. Then my cautious brain pointed at the broken arms and legs and pieces that were knocked over and broke (underbaked I suspect). Not to mention the mold issue with Model Magic (another story). Plus if I want to make figurines for bonsai the polymer clays don't hold up outside here. Then other part of brain pointed out to pinchapenny that the polymer clays do have a shelf life...but "real" clay only gets better with time, so the gaps between projects (SQUIRREL!) won't affect materials. But then pinchapenny decided to point at kiln price tag. Arg. Anyone have any other thoughts on investing in a small kiln vs playing with polymer clay? I might also add that I'd need to buy a toaster oven for the polymer clay since I once scorched some in a real oven and don't ever want to do that. I was also maybe thinking if I get decent enough I could offer some of the "real" clay items on etsy and such, things that maybe aren't being made right now (I have made clay mini drums in the past and such). Thoughts? I tried searching but no go here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariW Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Don't have an answer, but I can say that your shelf life comment about polymer clay has me a little panicked. Lol what do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkshooter Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Have you considered seeking out a place in your community that will fire clay in their kiln for a small fee? I live in a big city and I can think of loooots of places that will fire clay for a relatively small amount (like - as many minis as you could want for $10, or one regular size pot). If you live in a very small community, it might be worth it to get in contact with a local high school (or middle school) art teacher and see if any of them have a kiln and would be willing to throw in a few small things the next time it is run. You could offer to make a donation to the department, which would be both a win for you and a win for the students. Then, if you end up loving real-clay minis, you can go ahead and invest in your own mini-kiln knowing that you'll get a lot of use out of it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Panner Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I was thinking the same think when looking for minis to diversify... LOL... I know I don't have the time to do my usual stuff, yet I can't stop looking at more minis. At first, while looking on eBay at the wood vases, which sell pretty low, I noticed pottery goes for far better prices, so I thought maybe a small kiln to play with is a nice idea. Then I saw some nice looking real clay vases selling for $2 or 3. Much nicer than I think I can make. So I canned the kiln plan fast. As for the polly clay breaking, it never happened to me. It is quite flexible, and even some thin details like bunny ears have survived harsh falls from my desk. (I think I mentioned before that I am really clumsy.) I guess it depends on brand, I use FIMO classic, maybe the one that breaks is destined for other uses, like jewelry or something. Also, I never really looked into shelf life, I assumed that if everyone uses it for minis I should be ok. And I have some unfinished pieces that I started two years ago and they look like the day I made them. I understood that if they are not baked enough the underbaked center part tends to eat away into the baked parts. I don't know what they use to make it but is some nasty stuff, I once left some unbaked clay in a corner of my keyboard and in a few days it melted the area under it, turning the keyboard into a gooey mess. I've never seen in my life anything that can eat plastic like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathieB Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I've danced around questions like yours for the major part of my 73 years. Hindsight tells me that rationalizing the sale of product to justify/recoup the initial cost is foolish; not likely to happen. I've had a number of grand plans that never quite worked out. Robin's suggestion to find a local potter to fire your work is a good one. My husband taught ceramics at the college level for 25+ years and likes to keep his hand in. He would like to have a kiln of his own but realizes that at 79 he is not likely to be doing large numbers of pieces, and the fact that we divide our year in half geographically would also limit its use. When we are in New Orleans, he takes his pieces to a former student (a professional potter) for firing. If the sale of items fired by someone else becomes profitable, then perhaps think about buying a kiln. Let success support the investment. As for scorching poly-clay, have your considered boiling it instead of baking? It requires a dedicated pan, but works quite well. Consider that boiling water is 212 F (100 C) and adjust the time accordingly. Not a rolling boil, just a nice gentle simmer will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I use polymer clay and you might find this helpful. No more scorching. http://minimaker.hubpages.com/hub/mini-wine-bottle-tutorial 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathieB Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I use polymer clay and you might find this helpful. No more scorching. http://minimaker.hubpages.com/hub/mini-wine-bottle-tutorial That's a great tutorial, Luanne. I'm going to need numerous bottles for the Bohemian inn's bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaholly Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have had thoroughly baked polyclay items break off because of sculpting issues before baking; lesson learned (by me) was to be careful during the sculpting process. Polyclay is a plastic and "real" clay makes a ceramic, which is why the firing temps are so high for the latter. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and onions. As for polyclay's shelf life, it can be reconstituted with oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmar4211 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 Kari, it gets hard to knead. You can reconstitute it, but when I want to create I want to do it NOW not after an hour of kneading . If I went that way I'd have to invest in a pasta machine (have yet to see one in a thrift store or goodwill here). Sparkshooter, as a matter of fact I have looked around to rent .The two real ceramic studios I found don't out of fear of greenware explosions I guess. Two other places are only "paint and fire" types, no bisque firings. The one studio I did find that rents out space wanted $30 a kiln firing...ok cool. Until I found out you also have to pay a $100 a month member fee and they're only open during the day and 4 hours on saturday. Yeaaaaa NO. No local college has a ceramics studio. The closest one is an hour drive each way....plus the course fees. I did that one a couple of years ago and the drive was draining after work. Plus for the 400 course fee I could go ahead and buy a mini kiln! One of my bonsai club members is making his own pots and has offered use of kiln space, but the logistics of scheduling with him have made that idea impossible so far and we've been trying for two years. Kathie, you sound suspiciously like my dad..... LOL. He told me to consider it a hobby and don't try to justify the cost...but dont do it if it's a passing "fad" in my brain. However, when I mentioned it to a family friend she pointed out to me I've been talking about the idea for over a decade, up till now never looked at the mini kilns so space and cost was the issue (not just cost). She's right....I've wanted my own kiln since college. I really wish I could see one in person...maybe I'll build a box that size to see exactly how big an area I'd have.... No, hadn't thought about/looked into the boiling thing. Would have to get a burner and do it outside because the house gets hot enough (I'm in FL)........leading me into Luanne, thanks for the link! There's some info I need there Still up against the "outdoors" issue though...I have visions of figures in trees but every one I've made and put outside, no matter how coated or uncoated or brand, has fallen apart within a year or gotten chalky and crumbly..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaholly Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Keep looking. The pasta machine I use for clay I found in a thrift store. It didn't have a handle, so I use the one with the pasta machine I use to make pasta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyckedWood Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Pasta machines in the craft stores are about $20, then with the %40-50 off coupon that makes it even cheaper. I didn't use one at first but now I have one I wouldn't want to work with polymer without it. Although Id like to get a second one for use with the color red, it's hard to get all traces of red out of the pasta machine. I would love to learn real mini pottery, it's just so pretty looking. I love the Jane Graber pieces, she's so talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyckedWood Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Also got a cheapo new toaster oven at target for only about $13, it's worked fine for the past 4 or 5 years that I've dabbled in polymer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Kathie- you are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmar4211 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Oooo ooo oooooooo posted a beg on my facebook, someone emailed me with a potter they knew...and she does indeed rent kiln space...no price yet because uhhhh how much do I want? So going to outline my plans and email her back. Cross your fingers , this may work! And heyyyyy I could maybe do both...... kiln rental for outdoor stuff/mini stuff I want cermiac, Back to fimo/sculpey for indoor stuff, espically since it works in the microwave?!?!?! *starts getting excited* Uhhhhh ok one micro fimo question...can you microwave fiberfill? I used it to support stuff in the oven but does it survived a bath in the micro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaholly Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Karin, I wrap my poly clay in waxed paper before feeding it through the pasta machine. It keeps th clay color off of the machine and, more important for me it keeps the black streaks from the aluminum machine parts from getting into the clay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniCrazy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 There are small kilns used in microwaves that will fire ceramics or melt glass. I think they would be great for doing doll house items. I've been watching them on EBay and there are videos of them on you tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmar4211 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Great news!!!! Local potter is reasonable on prices, doesn't require studio membership to fire, and doesn't require you to use the whole load at once (you pay for load , and then she keeps track of how much is used and lets you know what's left). And she's a plant person, including bonsai, and turns out she knows some of the same bonsai people I do . Finding her parking was a bit o fun (smallll yard), but very cool place. And I can get clay and glazes without paying shipping because she's a dealer of the big pottery companies . So I came home with 50lbs of clay and now I have to figure out where I'm going to work and get a worktable up in the garage. After talking to her, I think I'll do both poly and real clay, espically with the "microwave in water" revelation. Use the poly for anything with fine details that might not survive a driving trip . And for prototypes I've heard rumours that the microwave kilns don't last very long, that they crack after a few firings ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaholly Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Sue, you will want to use a dedicated microwave oven and utensils for boiling your clay. poly lay ontins toxins that are released by heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathieB Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Sue, you will want to use a dedicated microwave oven and utensils for boiling your clay. poly lay ontins toxins that are released by heat. Holly, are you sure about this? I can't find any information on the net that indicates this would be a problem. If toxins are released during a water bath curing, then simmering them in a pan on the stove top would mean one would need a dedicated kitchen rather than just a dedicated pan. Assuming some toxins are released, I'm thinking a wipe-down of the interior of the microwave with a Clorox wipe or similar would be enough to clean it for use with food. Does anyone have any scientific references for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaholly Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I was thinking of the vessel used for the boiling and the interior of the microwave having "stuff" deposited on it; I wonder how easily that could be removed. I supposed that the polymer fumes wouldn't be released in the steam vapors. I do notice that liquids boil very rapidly in my microwave and I was thinking about the possibility of boiling dry and having the bare clay baking in it. Anna boils her clay, but does so in a dedicated vessel on her stove, so I'm assuming there's no problem with the fumes in the boiling process. The fumes problem came up when people with pet birds and other susceptible pets were discussing the fumes from various methods of curing the poly clay. I bake mine out of doors or on n open screen porch in a dedicated toaster oven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniCrazy Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Sue, I had not heard that about the microwave kilns. I don't have one yet but I have been watching them on EBay Maybe I better do some more research before I dive in. Thanks for the heads up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I do indeed tend toboil my clay,especially smaller items and in a dedicated pot. Haven't noticed any fumes as such, using the stove fan as well (ie when I used to have one LOL, so now I take a single cooking plate outside when curing fimo) I prefer and recommend a slow rolling boiling process, rather like simmering I think over a hard bubbling as that can make thungs bend pit ofshape. One thingwhen boiling is that the oil in the clay can "leak" out making the cured item a little less shiny and a little more brittle in teeny tiny detail. I haven't boiled anything with liquid fimo on it though! Hugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonberry Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Holly, are you sure about this? I can't find any information on the net that indicates this would be a problem. If toxins are released during a water bath curing, then simmering them in a pan on the stove top would mean one would need a dedicated kitchen rather than just a dedicated pan. Assuming some toxins are released, I'm thinking a wipe-down of the interior of the microwave with a Clorox wipe or similar would be enough to clean it for use with food. Does anyone have any scientific references for this? I did a lot of research on poly clay and found a very good website that has loads of information, it is an online encyclopedia. I made it one of my homepages so that it pops up every morning when I switch on my PC. http://www.glassattic.com/ There are many entries relating to various of these questions, with people supplying real information as it happened to them, or what works for them. Just don't get lost on there, I just go to check one little thing and end up on the site for hours hehehehehe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanaholly Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Thank you for that link, Lene. I read all the warnings about the fumes several years ago, and it makes sense to use some precautions using it, but I about fell out reading about the user who wore a respirator while baking clay. I frequently wash my hands because I don't like the way they feel after a period of time while I've been conditioning the clay and the sculpting it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmar4211 Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Realized my fat fingers are too big for mini sized pots. . I'm seriously considering carving a few pots out of a chunk of clay instead of trying to build them like a full sized pot. My hands are so hot they dry out themini coils too fast. Hrmmm maybe an extruder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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